Official Luthiers Forum!

Hype? Or a real improvement?

I hadn't heard of these things until one of my high rolling clients brought me a guitar with a set installed. He was raving about them (no surprise - he loves anything expensive). $99 a set? Not for me, pal - but what have you experienced?

I found the pins to be heavier than wood, bone, or plastic pins so it stands to reason they would add mass to the bridge and top. He claimed better sustain and improved tone, but since I hadn't heard the guitar previously I have no way of knowing.

I just swapped out the plastic saddle for a bone saddle, and lowered the action a bit. It has a nice sustain, and the tone sounds okay to me. He is former Nashville studio ace, so he should know what he's talking about.

Thoughts, opinions, comments?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I think these pins bear a close resemblance to the brass nuts and saddles of the early 80’s. Re….more mass equals more sustain. The only way to tell if they are an improvement would be to do blind listening tests but that would prove difficult without two absolutely identical guitars. Also, from my experience this type of test results in a 50/50 chance of guessing which guitar sounds better!!!! Beauty is in the eye or ear of the beholder.
I think that the new saddle you installed would have made a much bigger difference to the overall sound of the instrument than the $99. Pins. Also if the strings are properly seated in the bridge plate that would account for a good portion of the guitars tone and sustain.

This is just my opinion of course but I didn’t spend the money nor would I.

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Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!

In the "high end" audio world, there was a product offered (may still be around) called "mpingo disks." They were disks of various sizes turned out of ebony (mpingo). If you put them around your listening room, they produce miraculous improvements to soundstage, separation, and all of that great high end audio stuff. The power of persuasion can't be measured in watts.

If it makes you happy and you have the bucks, cool go for it. Back in hifi terms, I read an article by one high end audio dude who said that still the best music he ever heard came from the AM radio in his car. Amen.

Anyway, there's a lot of snake oil to be found. Some of it is probably real. But it's hard to trust your ears outside of forces that say what you're hearing isn't real.

Dave

Yeah it's the mass not the material since the pins come into play AFTER the "speaking length" that influences the tone of the string is terminated. And like Cal rightly said some instruments (and players which are part of the system too) benefit from more mass in the most valuable real estate on a guitar top. Others not so much and there is no telling.

And I agree that blind listening tests would be the only way to make sense of this and also extraordinarily difficult to do with a guitar. You would need a calibrated device to do the picking, strict RH and temp control and even the room would have to be controlled as to where the reflections are and aren't, etc.

Not to be unkind but lots of guitars players never get to where they, we wish to be with our playing. So like the humans we are we compensate and look to other stuff to find tonal nirvana. I've been finding it lately in Dumble Amp clones.

I think if you can hear a difference you can also wag your tail
I didn't hear anything different to be honest and as for sustain, when is the last time you plated a 16 count note?

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Slotted or unslotted??

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I'm no Martin pro but suspect they are slotted. Unslotted would be a custom shop thing?

Yes, slotted.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I have two Martins with them. Both use a pyramid bridge. Seems to reason that they know they need to reduce the weight when using them.